Hughs handbuilt wiring dilemma!

[AussiXS]

I have read the crap out of the forum trying to get answers to this but I just cant manage it!

I bought the complete kit off hughs handbuilt and fully installed the hardware for it, looks great! Now its just finalizing the wiring and getting it to run my bike, that is where I am struggling. There are loads of posts about customizing the wiring to have kick only and all that stuff but I just bought a new harness and want to run stock but with the new coils, alternator etc from hughs. How the hell do I do that? Do i have to radically change the harness or is it just plugg and play?

Harness I bought - https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs65...0-50-oem-2m0-82590-50-00-2m0-82590-50-00.html
Hughs complete Kits - http://www.hughshandbuilt.com/product/complete-xs650-cdi-system/

 

[wherearewe]

Hughs PMA and CDI kit isn't a pure plug and play swap unfortunately. Its going to need at least some thought and tweaking. Depending on what your doing, you may have been better off making your own loom, but that loom could probably be re-purposed. There is plenty on Hughs Blog you should read. Also according to this thread, post 14, his kit ships with 45 pages of instructions which you should have?

http://www.xs650.com/threads/suggest-a-diagram.46856/

At lot of the members here who lean towards the resto side are pretty anti the PMA swap, so prepare to be flamed. To be fair if you want to run a stock setup w battery etc (which I think you do?) the stock charge system is pretty well proven. On the other hand, if you bought a basket case with half the stock charging and ignition parts missing, Hughs kit isn't a bad way to go.
If it were me, I would start by installing the new loom you have, then test installing the kit to see how it all fits before hooking it up.

 

[member3480]

I have not yet worked with HUGH's CDI setup but I have made custom harnesses for CDI bikes of other makes. Honda has some bikes that have been running this for years. The first one I did I burned it up because I crossed a wire that had 12 volts that the CDI didn't use. I would go over all your leads not once but twice to make sure you don't have any wires that have 12 volts that will go right to the CDI plug. The rest of the install should be easy. If I was you and if I had one in front of me I would install everything and make new connections to your new harness. Stock harnesses have two color of wires that always have 12 volts that is any wire that is color red and color brown. So I would get a test light and double check before you hook up CDI . There should be a diagram or instruction that have come with it and a CDI setup is not new just new to a XS650. Good luck and if you need more help from me contact me at DADDYGCYCLES@YAHOO.COM
Other have got that kit on here and so far have not heard of any real big problems and I know if you contacted HUGH he would answer very nice guy to deal with.

 

[AussiXS]

I just cant seem to find a post of someone who has connected the Complete system to their original bike. Why, why dont we want that? Its actually getting to the point where im thinking "screw it, ill just make it kick only" but man when you're 10 kicks deep on the side of the road in the wet and then the thing recoils, that is the point where you want electric start.

The instructions Hugh has is great, but it just tells me how to install the hardware and how to make it kick only. There are no wiring diagrams in the pages.

I guess I could create one that is real simple but there are loads of extra parts, like the starter relay, the reserve lighting, the safety relay, starter solenoid, flasher cancel relay. Like do I need all this shit? And if I am making my own, how to I get power for all the indicators and headlight from the alternator, or do I just run all the wiring from the battery?

This is my wiring harness, I have all the components mentioned and the new hughs reg rec.

 

[member3480]

See the harness kits and harnesses I build do not use any relays just a bare bone setup that works. I know this can be done on a stock harness but I think you are going to have to fab it to the stock harness and just make sure you have no 12 volts feeding back to CDI because its a stand alone setup. There was a CB450A that I did and I just separated everything from the CDI and it worked great. Lights/horn/brake switches/starter were separate and you can do the same with the stock harness and have electric start just going to do some thinking and double checking wires. I intend to make a stand alone harness for this setup but not until next year . So let me know how you make out.

 

[xjwmx]

Here's how you could get started without it being so daunting. First, wire in your Mike's harness; that will give you functioning switches, lights, and it'll turn over. Don't make any ignition or generator connections from it at all and instead just tape them up somewhere. Next, after that's working, take your Hugh's-supplied harness and wire up the ignition and generator according to the instructions for that. That will get you going -- later you can streamline if you want after you understand it better.

 

[karbo]

AussiXS I have to echo your frustration trying to find info with keeping electric start with the PMA and wiring it in properly to stock harness. I bought a Hugh's system and hooked it up to my 79 XS special streetracker. It starts 1st or second kick (runs great) but electric start doesn't work or my headlight. I had my electrical engineer friend get my electric starter working with the safety relay. My headlight still isn't working. He told me the wiring diagrams are pretty "busy" depending on the model and what accessories are on the bike (he found the diagram for a 1979XS). So I'm going to check my headlight bulb first then if that isn't it hopefully we can track the problem down.
One side note to getting the electric starter working is that it seems to stay engaged a millisecond or two longer after bike fires up....???? I wonder if that is the result of this wiring hookup? I worry about gear wear when it does that....maybe I don't need to? If someone knows of this as an issue please chime in.

 

[Signal]

Personally I find adapting an existing loom is more difficult starting from scratch.

When you start drawing your diagram break the diagram down into compartments Ignition, Charging, Starter, Lights, Indicators it makes it easier to comprehend.

XJWMX's suggestion is also worth thinking about if you think making a new loom is a stretch.

 

[AussiXS]

So I have gone with attempting to wire up Hugh's complete kit stand alone to try and get a spark, (see in video) rather than installing all the wiring to find Hugh's doesn't work. . I have based how I wired it off of this picture below, just without indicators and such, I'll edit the pic to show what I have done soon. The issue is there is no spark. Can anyone see where I have gone wrong, besides buying this stupid thing in the first place. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3tSQlhhBRz9LTJvc2N0aW1kcE0

 

[xjwmx]

There's no electrical diagram in your drawing. The box on the right with no connections -- really? Doesn't he give you something to wire it by? If not, send it back saying it's unusable and put your stock generator and ignition back on. They would be better even if they were broken....

 

[AussiXS]

Yeah, sorry, that diagram is rubbish, but i do want to make the one that is in post #9. A bit of an update, there is a relay that comes with the system and I unplugged the sucker and I was able to get spark, then I took the battery lead off and I was able to start kick only too. So its a bit of a weird one. I need to make a full wiring harness, I am going to try and salvage as much as I can from the Mikes XS one and see how we go. Essentially, when you buy the full CDI kit you have to think of it in two parts, one for the alternator and ignition then the second part for the external things like lights. I will do a proper video and break down of what I have done, once I figure it out myself. Thanks for all the help guys.

 

[Signal]

Ok you realised the problem with the diagram in post 9.
How did you sort the problem in your video with clearance from the rotor to the ignition pulse coil. The gap between the rotor and the pulse coil can also affect the timing so there may be some info on what to set it to.

I can only guess without a diagram that the relay is probably the interface between the bikes key switch and CDI ignition kill circuit. The CDI is self generating and probably uses a wire that is connected to ground via the relay when you want to kill the engine.
The key switch when on energises the relay and holds the ignition kill circuit above ground, when you turn the key off the relay turns off and grounds the CDI kill circuit.
Post the diagram you got from Hugh showing how to wire the CDI and the charging system.
Post the diagram you plan to use incorporating the CDI and charging system so the electrical wizards on the forum can check it.