New to this, bike cut off and now wont start.

[peanut]

good post 5twins. head tightening sequence is useful too .

I did consider the possibility of a head gasket leak but I didn't think it fitted the po's symptoms of exhaust suck which is classic exhaust valve leak? .

Plus I would have expected the crankcase to be pressurized too with such a huge drop in compressive gas pressure.

 

[5twins]

Well yes, he needs at least a valve adjustment too, but maybe a re-torque will help with that oil problem. Certainly worth a try and easier than a full motor tear-down. Really, all these bikes could use a top end refurb, mostly for that front cam chain guide. It is in your future if you have a 650 and it's never been done. I was hoping maybe we could get this guy through the rest of the season before he needed to "lay the wrenches on it" - that would be "twist the spanners" in Brit-speak, lol.

 

[peanut]

my suspicion is that one of the exhaust valves have either stuck due to lack of regular use or they have been incorrectly adjusted resulting in the valve becoming burnt hence the suggestion for the op to check the valve gaps first before anything else is done.

Re-torquing the head is an excellent precaution but I would do some further tests and visual checks before taking the head off it it was my bike

I agree that too many folk either launch into a teardown or buy un necessary bits in an attempt to correct faults without first acertaining the cause of the problem.

I am in the process of rebuilding my engine which the po had stripped for no reason that I can see ?? it has 18k on the clock and is as new. its still costing me £70.00 just for new gaskets and seals alone

 

[MFJustin]

You guys have given me some great info and sorry if it seems that I'm still trying to jump around and "internet diagnose" a problem without actually getting my butt out to the garage and looking for myself. Just trying to gather as much information as I can and so far you guys have given me a lot of helpful stuff.

Can I re-torque the head with it still in the bike or do I need to take the motor out to get to it the right way?

 

[Dennis]

I believe you can do it while still in the frame

 

[5twins]

Yes, you can do it in the frame but you have to remove the top motor mount to access some of the nuts. One of these "wobble" extensions is helpful, not only for the top inner bolts but especially for the couple under the spark plugs .....

 

[Poverty]

Awesome.. another VA rider!.. I drive thru Warrenton OMW to visit my parents quite often if you need any hands on help let me know

 

[MFJustin]

Awesome.. another VA rider!.. I drive thru Warrenton OMW to visit my parents quite often if you need any hands on help let me know

Appreciate the offer, I will definitely let you know. Its good to find other VA riders!

 

[MFJustin]

5twins I had to buy a 1/2" universal joint to fit on my torque wrench so now I can get started.

Quick question before I begin though. Would it be a better idea to back everything off slightly and then retorque it correctly or can I just go bolt to bolt in the specific pattern and make sure that its up to spec.

*Edit* Nevermind did a little bit of reading and found my answer in another thread.

Also for what its worth I took both exhaust pipes off to get a better look at the valves going up and down. As shown in these pics the right cylinder is coated in oily sludge. The left cylinder looks dry with just some carbon buildup. Not to continue jumping around with my questions and focus but I read in another thread that gas mixing with the oil could cause it to smoke like absolute crazy, which my bike is currently doing from the right cylinder only.

Regardless for the time being I'm going to go torque the head bolts and adjust the valve clearance so I can at least say its been done.

 

[5twins]

You should pull each bolt or nut, one at a time, clean the threads, apply anti-seize, then install to the torque spec. Check each one first before removing to see if it's loose. The 8 large acorn nuts on top are the usual culprits but those 2 bolts down under the spark plugs are also loose many times. Those 2 bolts are important. They're the 2 fasteners that are farthest out in the pattern. They do a lot to help seal the head gasket. Even if you don't find some of the fasteners loose, that doesn't mean they're not. As you probably read in that other thread, the fastener can become stuck on the threads over time and read the right torque even though it's loose. That's the reason for removing and cleaning them, or at the very least, cracking them loose first.

 

[MFJustin]

Head bolts are all torqued up to spec. I went to adjust the valves, I can definitely tell that the right cylinder exhaust valve is not in spec because I could stick feeler gauges bigger than .006 in there. Unfortunately I couldn't adjust them because I didn't have the right size socket for the tappet itself. Anybody know what size it is, 4mm, 5mm?

 

[5twins]

It's a 4mm but it's a square head, not a hex. Try a small Cresent, like a 6".

 

[Square Circle]

Head bolts are all torqued up to spec. I went to adjust the valves, I can definitely tell that the right cylinder exhaust valve is not in spec because I could stick feeler gauges bigger than .006 in there. Unfortunately I couldn't adjust them because I didn't have the right size socket for the tappet itself. Anybody know what size it is, 4mm, 5mm?

I just adjusted all my valves.. it can be a pain chasing around the proper gaps. be patient.. take deep breaths..,, and do it again and again until its right.... I didn't have a tappet wrench either,,, i just used a 12mm box end for the nut and a pair of blunt ended needle nosepliers for the square drive tappet adjust. " 5 Twins is cringing now..lol" The 6 in. crescent would've been a better choice ... when i do this again , i'm going to order the hex drive tappets from mikes.. has to be a labor saver .. and i have plently of allen wrenches.

 

[5twins]

Sears has a 4mm open end in their metric ignition wrench set. That's what I used before I changed the screws.

 

[MFJustin]

I just adjusted all my valves.. it can be a pain chasing around the proper gaps. be patient.. take deep breaths..,, and do it again and again until its right.... I didn't have a tappet wrench either,,, i just used a 12mm box end for the nut and a pair of blunt ended needle nosepliers for the square drive tappet adjust. " 5 Twins is cringing now..lol" The 6 in. crescent would've been a better choice ... when i do this again , i'm going to order the hex drive tappets from mikes.. has to be a labor saver .. and i have plently of allen wrenches.

I'll tell you what, just trying to get it rotated around and located at TDC without going past it was a pain. I was just playing around with it practicing and I literally had to hold the rotor with my fingers and slowly bump the wrench forward until it lined up. It's going to be fun when I'm actually able to do it for real and I'm sure I'll get frustrated but hey its all part of the process.

 

[Square Circle]

I'll tell you what, just trying to get it rotated around and located at TDC without going past it was a pain. I was just playing around with it practicing and I literally had to hold the rotor with my fingers and slowly bump the wrench forward until it lined up. It's going to be fun when I'm actually able to do it for real and I'm sure I'll get frustrated but hey its all part of the process.

i found a thread here .. a guy said to put the plugs back in but just by a a few threads.. it should allow easy revolution yet just enough restriction to keep it from spinningpast the t.. i did this too and worked .i also would use a 17 mm socket ratchet then switch to a 17 closed end wrench on the last 1/3 of turn to get a grip on it.

 

[MFJustin]

The one problem that I'm actually having is that by turning it counter clockwise it eventually completely loosens the nut up so every few full rotations I have to tighten it back up again. I resorted to pushing the kick start down by hand while watching the piston to know when its coming up to TDC and then using the ratchet to get it the rest of the way perfectly lined up.

Tomorrow I'll do the valve adjustment for real now that I know I can just use a crescent wrench. Hopefully that and checking the torque on the head bolts solves my problem, if not it looks like it'll be tear down time.

 

[peanut]

Also for what its worth I took both exhaust pipes off to get a better look at the valves going up and down. As shown in these pics the right cylinder is coated in oily sludge. .

that was a good idea. Thats a lot of oil in there and its beginning to look like 5twins was right to suspect a head gasket leak

 

[Square Circle]

that was a good idea. Thats a lot of oil in there and its beginning to look like 5twins was right to suspect a head gasket leak

This makes me want to definately check the torque of my own head bolts. These engines vibrate alot. If i ever have to do a big tear down.. i"ll be considering a rephased crank.

 

[MFJustin]

that was a good idea. Thats a lot of oil in there and its beginning to look like 5twins was right to suspect a head gasket leak

I do hope that corrected the problem simply because I want to ride until at least the end of the season before I do a tear down, and in this case even if a tear down isn't needed I still want to take the motor apart anyways just to see what kind of condition its in and if I can do a little preventive maintenance by replacing some parts.

I still need to adjust the valves and also need to pick up a new inline fuel filter because one of mine is cracked, hopefully by the end of today I'll have some news whether it did the trick for me or not.