PAMCO "sucks" all voltage from battery when run switch turned on?

[Rd51]

Some of you may have been following my build thread, "just another first build."

To sum it up real short. Rebuilt top end, custom wiring harness, hugh's PMA, PAMCO from Pete, dual output coil from Mikes XS, Shorai battery, kick and electric start.

Cam chain tension, valves, timing, and carb sync accounted for. Still messing with the jetting, both plugs appear to be on the lean side at the moment.

I rode the bike 35 miles today for it's first ride. It performed flawlessly. Couldn't stop smiling.

Unfortunately, and luckily, as soon as I turned on my street the bike died. Lost power quickly, all lights (speedo, headlight, neutral light) dimmed and died.


Pushed the bike the rest oft the way and began assesing the problem. I don't have a mulitmeter on me at the moment. I will tomorrow and I'll post what I find with it.

At the moment however, I'm judging the voltage by the brightness of the lights mentioned above. With the bike not running, key on, they appear to be at 8-10 volts.

This is the part that puzzles me, as soon as I turn on my run switch (switch feeding power to the pamco and coil, all the lights dim, and die. As if the coil/pamco is sucking all of the voltage from the battery.

Wiring is as follows: B+ from the 7.5 amp fuse, through the run switch, to the starter relay, from the starter relay to one of the terminals on the dual output coil. Red wire from the PAMCO is on this same terminal. The other terminal on the coil has the Green wire from the PAMCO. And the black wire from the PAMCO is connected to a clean ground on the frame.


Been browsing the site already looking for simliar problems. No luck thus far. Shall keep searching.

If anyone has a direction to point me in, it would be much appreiciated.

Thanks!

 

[scabber]

The Pamco draws hardly any volts most likely not the problem. Check to make shure battery terminals are tight. Check battery and charging system when you get a meter.

 

[Rd51]

Yeah I didn't think it did. Just describing the way I'm seeing it at the moment. But I'll get back to you with some findings with the multimeter. Kinda hard to diagnosis stuff like this without one.

All terminals and grounds are tight and clean

 

[XSLeo]

On most any ignition the thing that draws the power is the coil. The ignition no matter how fancy just turns the coil on and off.
If your charging system is not doing it's thing the battery is not getting charged. When the battery gets low enough it can't power the coil, so the bike quits.
When you installed the PMA, did you properly test it for function? I assume that you not having a meter you didn't. The best way to test is to use a spare battery to power just the ignition. Set it beside the bike, hook just the ignition to it, leave the rest of the wiring on the bike as it is. Start the bike, use the meter to check battery voltage.
At idle it should be somewhere around 12.5 volts, now rev it up slowly. The voltage should climb to about 14.5 volts by around 2200 rpms and never go above that voltage at any rpms.
This will tell you if the PMA is functioning.
I've been spinning wrenches for 45+ years and I never could judge voltage by looking at a light. If people could they never would have developed meters.
Leo

 

[jd750ace]

I have a calibrated elbow for torque but I'm positive my eyeball multimeter is out of spec! Lol
As soon as I started reading the grocery list of goods changed and replaced, I thought to myself that's a butt load of new stuff to be shaking down in one shot. To get all that running without a meter is impressive.

 

[Rd51]

PMA was tested when it was installed. I have a meter, just not on me at the moment. It tested exactly as you described.

I'm aware of the necessity of a multimeter for proper diagnosis. When I stated 8-10 volts, I was merely using a "guesstimate" so I could get this thread rolling. Nevertheless I'll be posting what I find with the multimeter later today.



Calibrated elbow torque never fails! Haha. I'm guessing I didn't make myself clear. I have a meter, used it to get the bike running at my shop in. Did a few test runs around there. Then decided to take it to my house (35 miles) for the first ride. Now I'm here with no meter. Stay tuned!

 

[jd750ace]

35 miles is about the right distance to dump a fresh battery if you are not charging.

 

[Rd51]

Findings so far.

10.45 V at battery. 10.45 through 20 amp fuse to one side of the key switch. Turn the key on, 10.42 at fuse block.

Turn on the run (kill switch) voltage at terminal on the coil, 9.4 .

Tested resistance between 2 terminals on the coil. 2.6 ohms.

Tested resistance between the 3 yellow wires. 1-2, 2-3, 3-1. All Open circuit....

Haven't pulled the flywheel off yet. I think the puller is at the shop.

Going to put the battery on the charger for now, and see if the battery can be revived and if the bike starts

 

[jd750ace]

Don't pull the flywheel. Your battery is a piece of shit. You need a good battery to start with, then verify you are charging.

 

[Rd51]

Fired the bike up today after charging the battery. I tested for AC volts between the three yellow wires.

1-2: 2.09 AC
2-3: 2.01 AC
3-1: .32 AC

Hooked the wires back up to the reg/rec. Bike was at 13V at idle. (fresh from the charger) Reved to 2,500 RPM and the voltage did not increase. 3,000 rpm and voltage slightly decreased.

Concluding stator is bad? Not sure how that could have gone bad so soon though?


On a separate note. Checked the timing again right now. It's showing way passed the the F mark at idle. Still advances, but past the advance mark.

I had checked it before the 35 mile ride and it was at the F mark at idle. How does that change? I'm wondering if because the HHB flywheel doesn't use the woodfruff key on the crankshaft that it slipped slightly? I toqured the nut to 30ft lbs as requested by Hugh.

 

[jd750ace]

Either your stator is toast, or you are not getting excitation voltage it would seem. Smarter folks than me will chime in.

 

[ippytattoo]

I am sure that Hugh has stated somewhere what the resistance values should be between the 3 stator wires but an open circuit is not correct and your output voltage reflects this. I would be looking for rubbed and/or broken wires between the plug and the stator. On a side note, even though it not absolutely necessary to install a key in the flywheel/rotor it is a good idea since as you can see the flywheel can spin on the crankshaft and throw off your timing marks if you do not have a key to keep it from moving. I would suggest that after you pull the rotor to inspect the wires for the stator when you put the rotor back on to use a key and re-make your timing marks.

Here is Hugh's recommended values for the 3 yellow wires
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showpost.php?p=271951&postcount=10

 

[Rd51]

I am sure that Hugh has stated somewhere what the resistance values should be between the 3 stator wires but an open circuit is not correct and your output voltage reflects this. I would be looking for rubbed and/or broken wires between the plug and the stator. On a side note, even though it not absolutely necessary to install a key in the flywheel/rotor it is a good idea since as you can see the flywheel can spin on the crankshaft and throw off your timing marks if you do not have a key to keep it from moving. I would suggest that after you pull the rotor to inspect the wires for the stator when you put the rotor back on to use a key and re-make your timing marks.

Here is Hugh's recommended values for the 3 yellow wires
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showpost.php?p=271951&postcount=10

Thanks for the reply ippy. Yes I had recall reading somehwere what the values should be and that open was not correct.

I had originally emaliled Hugh about using the woodruff key, and he told me to leave it out. But now that I've seen the flywheel spin I want to install one.

I wonder if I can modify the OEM yamaha key?

Hugh and I have emailed back and forth all week. He sent out a whole new PMA kit to me, and I'll be sending mine back to him for inspection. Glad I went with his product

 

[ippytattoo]

Hugh is a great guy to deal with. The key you probably need to get (I can't say for sure since I don't actually run a HHB PMA) is for a banshee, the Yamaha part# is 90280-05033-00 but I found one at the local hardware store that was the right width to fit the groove in the flywheel and the right shape along the profile. I know there was a write up on how to modify it with a file to make a wider key fit correctly.