XS650 Ignition Possibilities
Standard
Points…Cam ignition pick-up
Single lobe cam, twin points system…original
Double lobe cam, single points system…to optimise power supply you really need to use a dual output coil with a primary winding resistance of about 4-5 ohms
These are easy to make and easy to f##k-up. CNC production cuts unit costs and make these cheap. Their sensitivity means set-up and quality control must be top. Some under optimised runs of these have made their way onto the market over the years giving them a bit of a bad rep. This doesnt need to be the case. Lobe peaks must be at 0° and 180° and have the same opening and closing profiles. There have been problems with keyway cuttig too. Sometimes bad ones can be reground by hand with a stone.
Electronic…Crankshaft ignition pick-up
TCI Unit sends spark signal to the coil
The electrical system differs between these two variations. The electronic system has an ignition pick-up placed on the stator taking its signal directly from the crank and feeding it to an ignitor unit-these can give problems with soldered contacts and transistor breakdown. Points models take their signal directly from the cam and are therefore subject to retarding problems as the cam chain stretches.
Electronic models also have integrated solid state Rectifier/Regulators which earth to the frame. Earlier points models earthed at the brushes. When using a later rec/reg with an earlier alternator you need to isolate the brush held with three screws by replacing them with nylon ones-NOT plastic.
Is one better than the other? I don’t know. I do know that I grew up with points systems and am not afraid of them. They require time and effort ocassionally, but they will not let you down – if you understand the basics its not the points ignition that will stop you getting home. Electronic “black box” systems give you a no maintenance spark curve. Its preset at the factory to emissions regulations and you cant change it. With time the soldering deteriorates and transistors breakdown. When this baby goes you wont be fixing her on the roadside. Youre not riding home.
You can convert one to the other if you wish – all the machining has already been done.
Points
A shaft sits laterally through the camshaft, supported by 2 sealed bushes. On the RHS under the round cover above the spark plug you find the advance unit, 2 spring loaded weights. On the LHS are the dual-points. The condensors are attached to the top engine mount. When converting to electronic ign this is all removed.
Electronic
These ignition systems do not have the above mechanicals. If converting to points this is an easy fit as the passage for the shaft and bush machining already exist.
Alternator
There are slight differences between the alternators for these 2 models.
- Electronic models take the timing from a pick-up on the stator plate sensing direct from the crankshaft (points models don’t have this and it can be removed).
- Electronic models use an integrated solid state rectifier/regulator. These ground directly to the frame. Points models ground through the brush held with 3 screws. When converting to electronic or to integrated rec/reg the brush will need isolating with 3 nylon screws - NOT plastic.
So, given the choice of using one of these or servicing 200 virgins for eternity I would definitely choose the double-lobe cam single points system. 1 set of points is easier to set than 2 and youre never going to be left pushing your bike home once you’ve mastered the points technique. You will attain eternal peace of mind.
Aftermarket Systems
Pamcopete http://www.yamahaxs650.com/
I like this system – ive just installed one on my latest hack. Very simple. If you have an electronic model you will need all the points gear including the advance unit but minus the points, points plate and actuating cam. If you have the points model you need to remove the points, plate and cam. Pamcos neat little hall effect electronic ign goes right here. The 3 cables go black to earth, red to positive coil side and green to negative coil side. You need a low resistance dual coil. Read the instructions eg do not kick over while a sparkplug is disconnected…A rephase model in planning/production ?
NWZ http://www.steffi-graf.ch/ (NWZ)
Like the pamco unit the sensor replaces the points mechanism. However the advance mechanism is removed and the control box bolts directly under the coil mounting plate. Also very simple. I know many people using this who are very happy.
Newtronics http://www.newtronic.co.uk/
http://www.newtronic.co.uk/new/support/newtro/AK-YAM6FittingInstructions.pdf
Ex Piranha…replaces the points with an optical sensor. A control box directs the coils. An English company…ive never used these or known anyone who has. Also produce a model for the 270° rephase.
Boyer Bransden http://www.boyerbransden.com/
http://www.boyerbransden.com/pdf/KIT00103__BOX00010_.pdf red
http://www.boyerbransden.com/pdf/KIT00303__BOX00210_.pdf blue
Remove all points mechanisms and replace with bb as per instructions. Also uses a “black box”. The red model incorporates the earlier models with high resistance primary winding coils. When these go they need to be replaced by similar high resistance coils. The blue model uses low resistance primary winding coils. These I have used and do/don’t like. They have very low tolerance to voltage fluctuations – if your battery or charging system is playing up don’t go far.
Probe Engineering
http://www.bore-tech.com/DX-65 Installation Instructions, 2.02.pdf
Mark Whitebook from Probe Engineering in California (949-489-9561) makes these electronic ign for the 650, 650/277 and the 650/270.
Remove all points and advance mechanism including the LHS bushing and seal. I have never used this but have heard some good things about it and no bad things
- so, im not saying one is better than the other nor that any are bad, in truth i havent an objective judgement here as i havent used all these...
- i have used double points, single points, TCI (original electronic), Pamco, Boyer Bransden and i know people who have used NWZ and Probe.
- as a result of personal experience, i wouldnt confidently use a Boyer ign on a stock XS due to charging problems.
- if you wish to run batteryless for weight and space then you can forget the fancy systems, they all require batteries...youre stuck with points or pamco and an RD permag alternator
- having been brought up on british bikes i have a fondness for the simplicity and practicality of points so my personal preferrence tends to a dual lobe single points cam but i am still enjoying the sheer simplicity of Pamcopetes electronic creation.
- so add your experiences, thoughts, pictures
Standard
Points…Cam ignition pick-up
Single lobe cam, twin points system…original
Double lobe cam, single points system…to optimise power supply you really need to use a dual output coil with a primary winding resistance of about 4-5 ohms
These are easy to make and easy to f##k-up. CNC production cuts unit costs and make these cheap. Their sensitivity means set-up and quality control must be top. Some under optimised runs of these have made their way onto the market over the years giving them a bit of a bad rep. This doesnt need to be the case. Lobe peaks must be at 0° and 180° and have the same opening and closing profiles. There have been problems with keyway cuttig too. Sometimes bad ones can be reground by hand with a stone.
Electronic…Crankshaft ignition pick-up
TCI Unit sends spark signal to the coil
The electrical system differs between these two variations. The electronic system has an ignition pick-up placed on the stator taking its signal directly from the crank and feeding it to an ignitor unit-these can give problems with soldered contacts and transistor breakdown. Points models take their signal directly from the cam and are therefore subject to retarding problems as the cam chain stretches.
Electronic models also have integrated solid state Rectifier/Regulators which earth to the frame. Earlier points models earthed at the brushes. When using a later rec/reg with an earlier alternator you need to isolate the brush held with three screws by replacing them with nylon ones-NOT plastic.
Is one better than the other? I don’t know. I do know that I grew up with points systems and am not afraid of them. They require time and effort ocassionally, but they will not let you down – if you understand the basics its not the points ignition that will stop you getting home. Electronic “black box” systems give you a no maintenance spark curve. Its preset at the factory to emissions regulations and you cant change it. With time the soldering deteriorates and transistors breakdown. When this baby goes you wont be fixing her on the roadside. Youre not riding home.
You can convert one to the other if you wish – all the machining has already been done.
Points
A shaft sits laterally through the camshaft, supported by 2 sealed bushes. On the RHS under the round cover above the spark plug you find the advance unit, 2 spring loaded weights. On the LHS are the dual-points. The condensors are attached to the top engine mount. When converting to electronic ign this is all removed.
Electronic
These ignition systems do not have the above mechanicals. If converting to points this is an easy fit as the passage for the shaft and bush machining already exist.
Alternator
There are slight differences between the alternators for these 2 models.
- Electronic models take the timing from a pick-up on the stator plate sensing direct from the crankshaft (points models don’t have this and it can be removed).
- Electronic models use an integrated solid state rectifier/regulator. These ground directly to the frame. Points models ground through the brush held with 3 screws. When converting to electronic or to integrated rec/reg the brush will need isolating with 3 nylon screws - NOT plastic.
So, given the choice of using one of these or servicing 200 virgins for eternity I would definitely choose the double-lobe cam single points system. 1 set of points is easier to set than 2 and youre never going to be left pushing your bike home once you’ve mastered the points technique. You will attain eternal peace of mind.
Aftermarket Systems
Pamcopete http://www.yamahaxs650.com/
I like this system – ive just installed one on my latest hack. Very simple. If you have an electronic model you will need all the points gear including the advance unit but minus the points, points plate and actuating cam. If you have the points model you need to remove the points, plate and cam. Pamcos neat little hall effect electronic ign goes right here. The 3 cables go black to earth, red to positive coil side and green to negative coil side. You need a low resistance dual coil. Read the instructions eg do not kick over while a sparkplug is disconnected…A rephase model in planning/production ?
NWZ http://www.steffi-graf.ch/ (NWZ)
Like the pamco unit the sensor replaces the points mechanism. However the advance mechanism is removed and the control box bolts directly under the coil mounting plate. Also very simple. I know many people using this who are very happy.
Newtronics http://www.newtronic.co.uk/
http://www.newtronic.co.uk/new/support/newtro/AK-YAM6FittingInstructions.pdf
Ex Piranha…replaces the points with an optical sensor. A control box directs the coils. An English company…ive never used these or known anyone who has. Also produce a model for the 270° rephase.
Boyer Bransden http://www.boyerbransden.com/
http://www.boyerbransden.com/pdf/KIT00103__BOX00010_.pdf red
http://www.boyerbransden.com/pdf/KIT00303__BOX00210_.pdf blue
Remove all points mechanisms and replace with bb as per instructions. Also uses a “black box”. The red model incorporates the earlier models with high resistance primary winding coils. When these go they need to be replaced by similar high resistance coils. The blue model uses low resistance primary winding coils. These I have used and do/don’t like. They have very low tolerance to voltage fluctuations – if your battery or charging system is playing up don’t go far.
Probe Engineering
http://www.bore-tech.com/DX-65 Installation Instructions, 2.02.pdf
Mark Whitebook from Probe Engineering in California (949-489-9561) makes these electronic ign for the 650, 650/277 and the 650/270.
Remove all points and advance mechanism including the LHS bushing and seal. I have never used this but have heard some good things about it and no bad things
- so, im not saying one is better than the other nor that any are bad, in truth i havent an objective judgement here as i havent used all these...
- i have used double points, single points, TCI (original electronic), Pamco, Boyer Bransden and i know people who have used NWZ and Probe.
- as a result of personal experience, i wouldnt confidently use a Boyer ign on a stock XS due to charging problems.
- if you wish to run batteryless for weight and space then you can forget the fancy systems, they all require batteries...youre stuck with points or pamco and an RD permag alternator
- having been brought up on british bikes i have a fondness for the simplicity and practicality of points so my personal preferrence tends to a dual lobe single points cam but i am still enjoying the sheer simplicity of Pamcopetes electronic creation.
- so add your experiences, thoughts, pictures
dont know how i forgot them, right on my doorstep...i know several using these, these are made in the czeck republic by vade, all seem happy with them,there are a few things, 
INXS
