xs650dreamer
XS650 Junkie
what youd use to taper these out mill or ?
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Elephants foot valve adjuster comparison Porsche VW Mikes
dps650rider
XS650 Addict
Conical stones in a drill. Might have used the dremel a bit too.
One more thing, when i got the CB units I was not thrilled with the lack of smoothness. After I put them in I did notice that they needed rather frequent adjustments initially. After they were worn in adjustment got to be very infrequent, I probably adjust then once a season now and I ride a lot. So IMHO I would rather have more threads than the initial smoothness of action.
Wasn't sure where to put this, so updating this thread.
I needed the inner dimensions of an elephants foot adjuster for my 'valve train geometry' thread. This is one of the cheapest and lowest cost Empi adjusters. The foot is somewhat easy to pop off, just clamp the foot solidly in softjaws, add a thick wasker and adjuster nut, pry up against the washer, and the shaft simply pops out of the swaged foot.
Close inspection showed that it contained the proper amount of asian grit. Cleaned it up for this pic. The bottom of the cup has a cone-shaped depression, and the center of the shaft's ball also has a cone-shaped depression. Probably serves as oil reservoirs. The surface finish of the ball and cup is very rough.
Measurements show that the center of the ball is 4mm above the foot base.
Reassembly was easy, just press the shaft back into the cup. Having been cleaned, the action felt really smooth.
I needed the inner dimensions of an elephants foot adjuster for my 'valve train geometry' thread. This is one of the cheapest and lowest cost Empi adjusters. The foot is somewhat easy to pop off, just clamp the foot solidly in softjaws, add a thick wasker and adjuster nut, pry up against the washer, and the shaft simply pops out of the swaged foot.
Close inspection showed that it contained the proper amount of asian grit. Cleaned it up for this pic. The bottom of the cup has a cone-shaped depression, and the center of the shaft's ball also has a cone-shaped depression. Probably serves as oil reservoirs. The surface finish of the ball and cup is very rough.
Measurements show that the center of the ball is 4mm above the foot base.
Reassembly was easy, just press the shaft back into the cup. Having been cleaned, the action felt really smooth.
goodgollyjosh
XS650 Addict
Ugh...Asian grit. So sad to see.
goodgollyjosh
XS650 Addict
Cool, who makes them?
Here's what some SR guys think of the elephant foot: http://sr500forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7254&p=49765
goodgollyjosh
XS650 Addict
Thanks for the supplier name. I will look them up. I noticed in the thread link you provided to the SR500 forum that there was some talk of it being a heavy mod. I can't speak for SR500 rockers but in the process of converting my XS650 rockers to carry the Mahle brand Porsche style swivel feet I was able to save 5.7 grams over the stock weight after grinding the rocker for clearancing and also trimming the excess thread from the swivel foot stem. I can't speak to the longevity just yet because I haven't started my engine at this point...but soon.
I think by "heavy" they mean involved. They're a bit concerned about grinding the rocker arm both in terms of thickness and hardening properties. I don't think rocker arm weight is where you gain massive HPs on the SR 
At least if it fails it's with the valve closed
At least if it fails it's with the valve closed
FWIW, here's how we fitted elephant's foot adjusters to my son's salvage '76 XS650.
He bought the Porsche adjusters because he was at his buddy's place one block away from the Porsche dealer when he thought about it.
I'm sure he paid more than he would have if he'd bought generic adjusters but quality, convenience and zero shipping cost beats all.
He brought the rocker arms over to my place, prepared to get medieval on them with my 8" bench grinder.
I said don't do that and coned the threads out with a 90º pointed stone in my die grinder.
After the rockers were coned out enough that the lifter feet would screw in to touch the rocker the remaining thread length was still more than it's diameter and the rocker arms' depth was not changed at all.
He bought the Porsche adjusters because he was at his buddy's place one block away from the Porsche dealer when he thought about it.
I'm sure he paid more than he would have if he'd bought generic adjusters but quality, convenience and zero shipping cost beats all.
He brought the rocker arms over to my place, prepared to get medieval on them with my 8" bench grinder.
I said don't do that and coned the threads out with a 90º pointed stone in my die grinder.
After the rockers were coned out enough that the lifter feet would screw in to touch the rocker the remaining thread length was still more than it's diameter and the rocker arms' depth was not changed at all.
For ease of installation and the polished finish, those KEDO adjusters sure look promising.
Having the ball over-roll, or worse, pop out, is concerning. Don't like the idea of hard things bouncing around in there, especially getting wedged under cam lobes. It's probably just an overrev thing and won't hurt a street tune.
Having the ball over-roll, or worse, pop out, is concerning. Don't like the idea of hard things bouncing around in there, especially getting wedged under cam lobes. It's probably just an overrev thing and won't hurt a street tune.
Well, curiosity won out. Decided to crack open a CB Performance elephants foot adjuster.
And 'crack' is the operative term here.
On this one, the cup is quite hardened. Disassembly will crack the swaged opening. This is one of the next lowest cost adjusters, but has full threads to the foot.
Close inspection showed that it was quite clean inside, no grit. The bottom of the cup has a cone-shaped depression, and the center of the shaft's ball also has a somewhat flattened depression. Again, probably serves as oil reservoirs. The surface finish of the ball and cup is better than the Empi, but the concentric machining rings cause the cup and ball to snag during swiveling.
Measurements show that the center of the ball is 4mm above the foot base.
Reassembly was easy, just press the shaft back into the cup. However, with much of the crimp ring cracked off, the foot is loosely retained on the ball.
Edit: Adding a pic showing the different thread lengths.
And 'crack' is the operative term here.
On this one, the cup is quite hardened. Disassembly will crack the swaged opening. This is one of the next lowest cost adjusters, but has full threads to the foot.
Close inspection showed that it was quite clean inside, no grit. The bottom of the cup has a cone-shaped depression, and the center of the shaft's ball also has a somewhat flattened depression. Again, probably serves as oil reservoirs. The surface finish of the ball and cup is better than the Empi, but the concentric machining rings cause the cup and ball to snag during swiveling.
Measurements show that the center of the ball is 4mm above the foot base.
Reassembly was easy, just press the shaft back into the cup. However, with much of the crimp ring cracked off, the foot is loosely retained on the ball.
Edit: Adding a pic showing the different thread lengths.
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If I recall correctlly the adjuster in #25 were used in the Ford Courior trucks. They may not work in our XS650's due there is not enough "rocking" space for the ball to stay flat against the valve stem. I think I read this in this forum or in the old XS Garage.
TwoMany,
Since you really have looked into XS valve train geometry and the various "Elephant Foot" adjusters on the market, you would be the one to ask:
Are the "CB Performance" adjusters compatible with hotter cams? At which valve lift will they create issues, due to their limited angle of movement?
I have a Shell #1 cam for my XS, and wonder if the "CB Performance" adjusters would work with this cam.
Since you really have looked into XS valve train geometry and the various "Elephant Foot" adjusters on the market, you would be the one to ask:
Are the "CB Performance" adjusters compatible with hotter cams? At which valve lift will they create issues, due to their limited angle of movement?
I have a Shell #1 cam for my XS, and wonder if the "CB Performance" adjusters would work with this cam.
Hey, ArcticXS. Our rocker geometry sweeps a rather small angle (<12°, stock) compared to others, which can exceed 20°. Even with extreme lifts, we're well below those angles, and the mid-lift foot-to-adjuster angle will be close to 0°. So, the foot shouldn't see the angle extremes of those other engines.
I don't recall the Shell #1 cam adding that much lift, maybe 1mm, which would be a little over 1° of additional rocker rotation. Whether the cam is a regrind (smaller base circle), or built-up/billet (higher lobes ), we should be well within the angle range of the VW/Porsche geometries.
Reference, the Valve Train Geometry thread:
https://www.xs650.com/threads/yamaha-xs650-valve-train-geometry.40042/
I don't recall the Shell #1 cam adding that much lift, maybe 1mm, which would be a little over 1° of additional rocker rotation. Whether the cam is a regrind (smaller base circle), or built-up/billet (higher lobes ), we should be well within the angle range of the VW/Porsche geometries.
Reference, the Valve Train Geometry thread:
https://www.xs650.com/threads/yamaha-xs650-valve-train-geometry.40042/
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Thanks TwoMany! My cam was purchased from Mrriggs, so is a rephased regrind, I believe. OK, time to order the CB Performance adjusters then!
goodgollyjosh
XS650 Addict
Another swivel foot I came across on the net. Not sure who makes them. I believe they are used for HD drag racing apps.
Those KEDO's look to be the hot tip
In the US about $80 a set of 4 shipped. http://www.thevintagespoke.com/shop/XT500/Camshaft-Chain/p/YAMAHA-SR500-TT500-XT500-Performance-Flatball-Valve-Lash-Screws-00033-x4523412.htm
Update as of 9-2015 they are now about $100 for 4 of them in the USA
In the US about $80 a set of 4 shipped. http://www.thevintagespoke.com/shop/XT500/Camshaft-Chain/p/YAMAHA-SR500-TT500-XT500-Performance-Flatball-Valve-Lash-Screws-00033-x4523412.htm
Update as of 9-2015 they are now about $100 for 4 of them in the USA
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Anyone brave enough to DIY a set?????
