1980 Build for Dad

[MaxPete]

Indeed - and then I guess after the powder coat, you could buff it to get a nice shine and then apply the decals on top of the powder coat.

Then you could shoot a rattle-can of 2K clear (costs around $30-50 I think) over top of the whole thing and seal the decals in. As I understand it, the 2K clear coat can be polished further to enhance the shine...

hmmmmm.....

 

[Teddytootired]

The KISS method works for me

 

[JRay77]

Really wish I could take pictures at work. We have several paint booths. For the most part, it's a fan drawing air. Paper mesh filter in front of it. Filter is simply held in place by frame and suction. Then out the roof. We have a water catch system in our big wet booth that gets pumped out every two months. It still uses suction paper filters on the sides. The wet paint that falls goes down in the water pit. I think..... Haven't had to work on this booth, it never breaks. Powder coat booths we have are a little more complicated. These have a fan draw system into filters but the filters have "pop off" high pressure air valves so the filters don't clog. These manifolds crack every so often. Have you ever seen a square air compressor? I have not but for some reason these manifolds are made square. I still need to make my own booth. I'll keep it simple for all I paint. Way off topic but welcome to the forum. Can't wait to see the XS1! Very well said (verbiage) in your intro.

 

[Rhy650]

If I haven't said it already, WELCOME! Really liking what I see so far, I don't think you'll have any problems with the rebuild. As motorcycle engines go, the XS is one of the simplest and parts are everywhere.

I'd be interested in pictures of your Dad's PVC Paint booth if that's convenient at some point. I do quite a lot of aerosol/rattle can painting as well as airbrush work on my models. I have a paint booth of sorts that I re-purposed out of 3/4" MDF and it works well but its DAMN heavy and in the way all the time when I'm not using it. Something light and collapsible sounds like the perfect solution.

I will be sure to take a picture of it next time it is assembled. Easy enough to describe, though. The main frame is made out of 1" PVC and is basically a 6'x6'x7' cube. Parts are hung off of a crossbar on the middle of the top frame. The whole thing is wrapped in cheap plastic drop cloth. It takes about 10-15 min to assemble with a little duct tape. We assembled it at the edge of the garage and used a pedestal fan blowing outside, creating negative pressure in the booth. The nice part about the drop cloth is that it is disposable, so all the overspray mess is contained. Hope that makes sense!

 

[Rhy650]

Welcome Rhy! Just want to echo what everyone else has already stated. Will be following this thread with interest. Was so impressed with your Dad's ingenuity, attention to detail, and machining skills. From the work you are doing, and as a molecular biologist, it is clear you are a chip off the ole block. Thank you for giving us a front row seat as you finish these builds in honor of your Dad, and thanks for your work in healthcare!

Thanks! This has been some really rewarding testing to perform.

 

[Teddytootired]

What holds the whole think together. Just push fit some 90’s and tee’s? Thought about using Emt pipe (thin wall electrical conduit) with steel set screw couplings and t’s. I’d bend the corners using a hickey.

 

[Rhy650]

Update

I got some more time to tinker this weekend. Was able to get the dreaded shift forks installed (wasn't as bad as I had feared). I hope these pictures show up bigger, I may need some help if they do not!

I was also able to install the rocker arms, transmission gear clusters, starter gears in the lower case, and lap the valves. Overall I have been pleased with the progress. While there are LOTS of parts I can typically get it figured out between the Haynes, Clymer, and original service manuals.

These look ok?

The tool for the rocker shaft removal is one Dad's creations. He has a big box of custom made tools for XS work that I will have to layout and take of picture of to share.

I also have a couple of questions...

1) The oil seal for the clutch pushrod that came with my kit from MikesXS (right) is different from the factory seal (left). It does not seem to fit as well without those four tabs. Thoughts on reusing the original seal? What am I missing here?

2) Looking down the road to assembling the crankcase halves, I have read that a sealant is used in place of a paper gasket. I have a tube of this 1194 compound that came with the bike/parts, would this work? If not, what do you all recommend? I'm not sure what Dad was using, but there is likely a tube of it floating around his shop somewhere.

Will keep you all updated, thanks in advance!

 

[Rhy650]

What holds the whole think together. Just push fit some 90’s and tee’s? Thought about using Emt pipe (thin wall electrical conduit) with steel set screw couplings and t’s. I’d bend the corners using a hickey.

Yep, just standard PVC connectors. Those which have to fight gravity get a little tape around them to keep them from coming apart.

 

[gggGary]

Use the mike's seal, check install threads, though with the cases split it's pretty easy.
If I were at that point, I'd prolly grab a file and round the outside corners where that seal goes in, it's a maintenance item, installs easier with an entry ramp.

 

[Jim]

I hope these pictures show up bigger

These look ok?

1) The oil seal for the clutch pushrod that came with my kit from MikesXS (right) is different from the factory seal (left). It does not seem to fit as well without those four tabs. Thoughts on reusing the original seal? What am I missing here?

I can't vouch for the Mikes seal as I've never used it, but the ARS seals I use look the same and work just fine. Did you look in the Tech section for the top end thread? It explains how to install those seals. EDIT: Misread the original statement. Was thinking cam seals. Oops.

2) Looking down the road to assembling the crankcase halves, I have read that a sealant is used in place of a paper gasket. I have a tube of this 1194 compound that came with the bike/parts, would this work? If not, what do you all recommend? I'm not sure what Dad was using, but there is likely a tube of it floating around his shop somewhere.

That should work just fine. I use Permatex aviation sealer, but that's a personal choice based on years of using it.... and yes, no paper 'tween the case halves, sealant only (and go sparingly).

 

[5twins]

Yes, you can use that sealer. You may have heard Yamabond mentioned. ThreeBond makes Yamabond for Yamaha and what you have there is the actual ThreeBond version.

The little feet on the back of the pushrod seal are nice if you're pressing it in from the outside, they keep it from going in too far, but your cases are split so you'll just be setting the seal in place as you assemble them. That MikesXS version should work fine. If you need more in the future, the originals are still available from Yamaha and not too expensive .....

https://www.partzilla.com/product/yamaha/93102-08206-00?ref=8e57f4c772a5cf9e21585bf1f084074551846d34

Something else you'll want to check while you're in that area is the bushing pressed into the end of the shaft that the pushrod runs through. If it's worn, the pushrod will wobble around too much and sometimes even a new seal won't work.

 

[Rhy650]

Something else you'll want to check while you're in that area is the bushing pressed into the end of the shaft that the pushrod runs through. If it's worn, the pushrod will wobble around too much and sometimes even a new seal won't work.

Great information, thank you. The pushrod does seem to have a fair amount of wobble. I also tried a new one-piece pushrod I plan to install and it was loose, as well. I will check it against some other gear clusters that Dad had laying around. Is a little "slop" to be expected or should it be a tight fit? I didn't see a spec in the service manual.

I was digging through the parts that came with the bike and actually found several oil seals for the pushrod. It didn't come with many parts, so that makes me suspect that it may have been leaking when last running.

 

[jetmechmarty]

Great information, thank you. The pushrod does seem to have a fair amount of wobble. I also tried a new one-piece pushrod I plan to install and it was loose, as well. I will check it against some other gear clusters that Dad had laying around. Is a little "slop" to be expected or should it be a tight fit? I didn't see a spec in the service manual.

I was digging through the parts that came with the bike and actually found several oil seals for the pushrod. It didn't come with many parts, so that makes me suspect that it may have been leaking when last running.

I think we were talking about the clutch pushrod, correct? There's a bushing behind the seal that is probably worn.

https://www.mikesxs.net/yamaha-xs650-bushing-clutch-pushrod.html

 

[MaxPete]

Yup - and if that bushing is worn, the rod can wobble around in the bore and that wears out the seal prematurely.

Having said that, the clutch pushrod seal is one of the few known leaky spots on the XS650. Aside from that one seal, they are normally pretty oil-tight machines.

 

[gggGary]

Yes they are a rather loose fit from the factory. At least a 5,000 miles example I checked was not a snug fit. In operation the rod is held close to center by the ball bearing in the worm gear.

 

[Rhy650]

Got it. I will compare to a few other clusters, but it is sounding like I may as well replace it while I have easy access to it. Oil leaks drive me crazy. Thanks all!

 

[5twins]

Yes, the best assurance for getting that area leak free is to install a new seal AND a new bushing. The long one piece pushrod also helps as it doesn't wiggle as much. I recently fixed this issue on my '83. The new install has zero wiggle between the pushrod and bushing. Details are here in post #64 .....

http://www.xs650.com/threads/200-special.51454/page-4

As you can see in the pics, the bushing is the split type. The easiest way to remove the old one is to drive an awl or small thin screwdriver in between the bushing and it's bore next to the split. You collapse the bushing in on itself and then it easily pulls out. I'm really liking the extra long bushing I installed and it's all I'll be using here from now on. You can get the longer bushings from McMaster-Carr, and at like half the price of what MikesXS charges.

 

[Rhy650]

UPDATE

Spent a good deal of this week waiting on parts, poor USPS must be having a terrible time this holiday season. Did manage to get a couple of things knocked out:

1) The jugs and pistons are at a machine shop - should be finished within a week or so.
2) Installed the valves with new valve seals. Everything checked out pretty good here.
3) Cleaned and rebuilt the clutch. Totally destroyed that keeper wire on the clutch boss, what a nightmare of a piece! My thanks to @5twins and @gggGary for helping me out with this.
3) Polished the left and right cases - was pleased with how they turned out.

4) Installed oil pump and tach assembly. I was not able to get this O-ring inserted. It is a new ring and well-lubed, any suggestions? It keeps folding-in when I try and insert the tach housing into the case.

5) Cleaned up the rotor and discovered it has low resistance. I have read elsewhere in the forum that you are looking for 5 ohms across the rings. This one measured about 3.5 ohms. I assume this needs to be replaced? Options other than MikesXS?

6) Prepping for crankcase assembly. Got the crank and cam chain in, spent about a half hour getting the bearings seated correctly, but finally got it seated. Had to come up with a way to mount the top half inverted. The wood vice on my workbench worked out very nicely along with some tubular steel. I decided to replace much of the hardware on the lower end and am generally going to try and replace as much as is practical with stainless throughout the rest of the build. This assembly seems like the sort of thing that could go wrong in a hurry, so I am trying to get all my ducks in a row before attempting it. Some liquid courage may also be necessary.

Lastly, I did come across an issue with the #4 starter gear. It looks fairly worn, like it has been skipping on the crank teeth. I discovered this post that claims all you need to do is pinch the spring, even for worn gears. Anyone have first-hand experience with this fix? It almost seems too good to be true...

Thanks all, will keep you posted!

 

[Downeaster]

On the tach drive, you may want to break the edge on the hole in the case. If there's a sharp edge, it'll grab the o-ring. Doesn't take much, just a light touch with a deburring tool or a piece of emery cloth. Just be sure to clean up VERY thoroughly. Don't want the debris in the case.

 

[Jim]

5) Cleaned up the rotor and discovered it has low resistance. I have read elsewhere in the forum that you are looking for 5 ohms across the rings. This one measured about 3.5 ohms. I assume this needs to be replaced? Options other than MikesXS?

It's your lucky day... I still have the Christmas special.
Have a look here.