I would like to replace my clutch on my 70 XS1. The clutch handle is very hard to pull. Changed cables, lubed cables, cleaned up worm and changed the disk and springs from my 71 parts bike. What is the best clutch I can put in and where to get it please?
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1970 XS1 Clutch
- Thread starter ekestle
- Start date
Use a later model worm? they have a longer arm, distance to the cable hole.
Cable routing is critical try a very free no bends route as an experiment?
Cable routing is critical try a very free no bends route as an experiment?
These old bikes even with the clutches working at there best still pull harder than most new bikes.
After ring my 650's around I stop in at a few places that sell new bikes and pull a few levers and wonder if they are hooked to anything.
You say you changed cables, did you try a new cable? If you swapped cables from another bike, that cable may be bad too.
Motion Pro has a good one. 650central has a good one.
On your early clutch they used rubber rings between the plates. This was to ease engagement.
They used 3.5 mm fiber plates. If you remove those rings and update to the 3 mm fibers you can ad one more steel and fiber plate.
This will improve the way the clutch works.
They changed the worm assembly a few times through the years. I'm not sure on the year but they changed the pitch of the threads in the worm. They changed the length of the arm as well as the distance from the cable attach point to the center of worm.
There is a thread on here some where talking about those changes.
Mike's XS sells a worm assembly that has the long arm with two attach points for the cable. One near the center, one out farther. You can hook the cable to either hole.
I have one on my 75. With the cable out in the farther hole the lever does pull easier. With it in the hole nearer the center the lever does pull harder.
There is also a difference in the way the clutch acts. In the outer hole the pressure plate doesn't move quite as far. This can cause a bit of drag. This can cause hard shifts and be hard to find neutral.
In the inner hole the pressure plate moves a bit farther and lessens the drag.
I have found that for the better clutch action the slightly heavier lever pull is worth the effort.
The stock clutch springs are about a 50 lb. spring, I use 70 lb. springs in the 75. It also has the 750 kit in it. With a well lubed cable, run as straight as possible, A well lubed worm assembly with everything adjusted right I get a very good action and lever pull. After my hand gets used to it every spring I can pull the lever with two fingers. The first few rides I have to use all my fingers.
Leo
After ring my 650's around I stop in at a few places that sell new bikes and pull a few levers and wonder if they are hooked to anything.
You say you changed cables, did you try a new cable? If you swapped cables from another bike, that cable may be bad too.
Motion Pro has a good one. 650central has a good one.
On your early clutch they used rubber rings between the plates. This was to ease engagement.
They used 3.5 mm fiber plates. If you remove those rings and update to the 3 mm fibers you can ad one more steel and fiber plate.
This will improve the way the clutch works.
They changed the worm assembly a few times through the years. I'm not sure on the year but they changed the pitch of the threads in the worm. They changed the length of the arm as well as the distance from the cable attach point to the center of worm.
There is a thread on here some where talking about those changes.
Mike's XS sells a worm assembly that has the long arm with two attach points for the cable. One near the center, one out farther. You can hook the cable to either hole.
I have one on my 75. With the cable out in the farther hole the lever does pull easier. With it in the hole nearer the center the lever does pull harder.
There is also a difference in the way the clutch acts. In the outer hole the pressure plate doesn't move quite as far. This can cause a bit of drag. This can cause hard shifts and be hard to find neutral.
In the inner hole the pressure plate moves a bit farther and lessens the drag.
I have found that for the better clutch action the slightly heavier lever pull is worth the effort.
The stock clutch springs are about a 50 lb. spring, I use 70 lb. springs in the 75. It also has the 750 kit in it. With a well lubed cable, run as straight as possible, A well lubed worm assembly with everything adjusted right I get a very good action and lever pull. After my hand gets used to it every spring I can pull the lever with two fingers. The first few rides I have to use all my fingers.
Leo
Thanks great info. I did put a new cable on but will go back and oil again and look at the route that I installed it. Where did you get your new friction plates and steel plates I would like to try your setup? Also going from 50 lb. to 70 lb. spring wouldn't that make for a harder pull? Should I pull off the basket and check the springs behind it? I know I ask a lot of question and thanks for putting up with me! Thanks gggGary and XSLeo!
Ekestle, there's 4 stages one could pursue to upgrade the 70-73 "256" clutch.
1 - Replace the unobtainable "256" plates, ((6) 3.5mm frictions and (5) 1.6mm steels),
with newer available "447" plates, ((7) 3.0mm frictions and (6) 1.4mm steels).
2 - Replace the 70-73 "256" clutch hub and pressure plate with the newer "447" hub and pressure plate. The newer "447" clutch uses Hub-to-PressurePlate engagement splines, and includes oiling holes that don't exist on the older clutch.
3 - Replace or overhaul the basket, renewing the (6) damper springs.
4 - Upgrading to the 80-83 clutch
Have a read thru these old threads:
http://www.xs650.com/threads/1972-xs2-clutch-issue-need-help.32575/
http://www.xs650.com/threads/ferodo-friction-plates.44091/
Posts #55 to #65
http://www.xs650.com/threads/my-first-build-2016-72-xs650.45465/page-3#post-457367
http://www.xs650.com/threads/possible-to-swap-tx-with-xsb-parts.49459/
Posts #45 to #47
http://www.xs650.com/threads/help-b...acebike-back-to-life.51319/page-3#post-539543
Dig down thru Mailman's links in this thread.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/xs2-clutch-pack-question.54136/
YAM277's album, clutch damper springs.
http://www.xs650.com/media/albums/cush-springs-dampening-springs-guide-for-replacement.2751/
The 80-83 clutch
http://www.xs650.com/threads/7-pack-vs-6-pack-clutch.52646/
1 - Replace the unobtainable "256" plates, ((6) 3.5mm frictions and (5) 1.6mm steels),
with newer available "447" plates, ((7) 3.0mm frictions and (6) 1.4mm steels).
2 - Replace the 70-73 "256" clutch hub and pressure plate with the newer "447" hub and pressure plate. The newer "447" clutch uses Hub-to-PressurePlate engagement splines, and includes oiling holes that don't exist on the older clutch.
3 - Replace or overhaul the basket, renewing the (6) damper springs.
4 - Upgrading to the 80-83 clutch
Have a read thru these old threads:
http://www.xs650.com/threads/1972-xs2-clutch-issue-need-help.32575/
http://www.xs650.com/threads/ferodo-friction-plates.44091/
Posts #55 to #65
http://www.xs650.com/threads/my-first-build-2016-72-xs650.45465/page-3#post-457367
http://www.xs650.com/threads/possible-to-swap-tx-with-xsb-parts.49459/
Posts #45 to #47
http://www.xs650.com/threads/help-b...acebike-back-to-life.51319/page-3#post-539543
Dig down thru Mailman's links in this thread.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/xs2-clutch-pack-question.54136/
YAM277's album, clutch damper springs.
http://www.xs650.com/media/albums/cush-springs-dampening-springs-guide-for-replacement.2751/
The 80-83 clutch
http://www.xs650.com/threads/7-pack-vs-6-pack-clutch.52646/
The master has spoken; case closed.
Yea, What 2M said.
Leo
Leo
Here are some visual references. This is from my media page. This is the original XS2 clutch being disassembled , with notations for the photos.
http://www.xs650.com/media/albums/1972-xs2-clutch-assembly.3073/
This set of photos shows the re assembly, using an entirely different clutch pack from a later model ( 1975 ?) for all the improvement reasons suggested by 2M.
http://www.xs650.com/media/albums/clutch-plates-installation.3041/
http://www.xs650.com/media/albums/1972-xs2-clutch-assembly.3073/
This set of photos shows the re assembly, using an entirely different clutch pack from a later model ( 1975 ?) for all the improvement reasons suggested by 2M.
http://www.xs650.com/media/albums/clutch-plates-installation.3041/
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Thanks guys! I ordered 7 new 3.0mm friction plates from MIke's XS. They did not have the steel plates. So what do you think about me using my 6 - 1.6mm steel plates? I also ordered the new worm gear setup but it is not the same. The 2 bolts that holds the assembly on is smaller. I looked at the 71 XS650 and it is also the smaller type. They must have change the size from the early 1970's. Not sure what to do. Can't find that type of worm assembly.
You'll end up with a clutchpack that exceeds the recommended total thickness 0f 29-29.4mm. Do a forum search on "stackup thickness".
Ex: Post #12.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/1972-xs2-clutch-issue-need-help.32575/#post-331767
You could try member Wrenchjohns conversion.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/3-screw-worm.41914/
Also, do a forum search on "XS1 Worm"...
Thanks TwoManyXS1B! I will find the right steel plates or try to use the surface grinder on the ones I have. I took the cover off the old 71 and put on the 70 till I find the right worm. It looks like I have room to drill and tap the old cover and install the newer worm assembly. What do you think? Read all the threads above. Good reading and info!
There used to be a guy on flea bay machining 3 groove worms to fit old yamaha dirt bikes, looked like they would fit the early XS1, My early worm is in good shape so I didn't pursue it.
