XS650 Electric Start System

MaxPete

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Cool, thanks for the insight. No issues with providing it a signal from an aftermarket PMA? I’m going to use the vape PD system. Just needs an AC voltage input?

I have never used PMA so I can’t comment on that.

Most of us have found that the stock charging system works quite well (often with a modern voltage regulator and rectifier).
 

gggGary

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I believe a member just tapped one of the AC legs from a PMA and that ran the relays just fine, could prolly add in a resistor since I think that "yellow wire" coil is only about 5 volt AC at 3000 RPM. (yes those are AC relays)
IMHO the main reason for the starter relay is to cut power to the starter as soon as the motor starts. I bypassed a relay ONCE. I couldn't release my thumb on the starter button fast enough to avoid starter overrun.
 
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ReycleBill

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I believe a member just tapped one of the AC legs from a PMA and that ran the relays just fine, could prolly add in a resistor since I think that "yellow wire" coil is only about 5 volt AC at 3000 RPM. (yes those are AC relays)
IMHO the main reason for the starter relay is to cut power to the starter as soon as the motor starts. I bypassed a relay ONCE. I couldn't release my thumb on the starter button fast enough to avoid starter overrun.

I tried the same thing on a Harley because I was too cheap to pay for a new Harley starter relay. After I removed my finger from the starter button the starter kept spinning over until I got the battery unhooked. It welded the starter button contacts together. Still being cheap, after I shelled out for another Harley starter button I went with a Ford starter relay. A little big but rebuildable and 1/3 the price.

I plan to install headlight relays on my Dodge truck tomorrow. I'll be using Ford starter relays. Cheaper, heavier, longer lasting, and easier to find. And still rebuildable for those of us that know how.
 

Steve C

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Does anyone have a pic of the safety relay? This brings up another thought, any concerns of the starter solenoid tips welding together? I know a low voltage battery leads to high amps and excessive heat and can weld contact tips together.
 

ReycleBill

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Does anyone have a pic of the safety relay? This brings up another thought, any concerns of the starter solenoid tips welding together? I know a low voltage battery leads to high amps and excessive heat and can weld contact tips together.

I've never seen solenoid tips weld together on a motorcycle but I did see it happen on a 318 Detroit Diesel once. Always wondered what the cause was.

Had to break off a battery terminal with a crow bar to stop it as I didn't have the wrenches I needed and the cables were beginning to smoke. Boss was happy the truck didn't burn to the ground.
 

Kenxs

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inxs;
That's an excellent thread on the starter motor system. As you said, you don't like the electric starting system, but I want to say that others need not fear the system. Yes, it is somewhat complicated with all those shafts and gears and springs. However, I do believe its well designed.

I took my starter motor apart (on my 78SE) to check for wear, and I must say the Hitachi motor is very well built. I expected to have to replace parts, but found that the brushes and commutator had minimal wear. All it needed was cleaning of the commutator and some minor undercutting/cleaning of the segments.

I use the electric starter everyday during riding season, and the engine starts perfectly everytime. If your battery and charging system is healthy, you will have no problems with ignition ( I have used both points and Pamco ignition). If your bike does not start well, don't blame the electric starter...................its likely bad battery/poor charging, ignition or carb problems.

For older guys like myself...............the electric starting is the only way to go. For the younger crowd..................enjoy your kickstarting:bike:

I know this is old post but gotta try. I need to set up an e start to save my back. I just installed a hughs handbuilt pma. What kit or parts do you recommend for setting up this up? And just to make in same page, This is set up to where you push a button and the motor starts? mine is a 79 if you need that,
 

gggGary

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The biggies: What's still inside the motor, the starter, gears in the case under the final drive sprocket, the shaft that goes across the motor and the bendix assembly located in front of the clutch under the RH cover, is all that in place?
After that heavy battery cables +12 and ground, a starter solenoid and a starter switch, which is most useful if located at the RH throttle control.
 
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flamesnm

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Just dropped in here to say thanks to INXS and all the contributors for an excellent thread. Like Kenxs above I'm looking to re-establish an electric start on a bike that doesn't have one. The difference here is that I'm the doofus that had it taken out when I had the engine rebuilt 5 years ago because why would I need an electric start ? A back injury and a dodgy knee have answered that for me. So I'll now go and answer the questions Triple G Gary above asked and see whether it's doable.
 

MaxPete

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The biggies: What's still inside the motor, the starter, gears in the case under the final driver sprocket, the shaft that goes across the motor and the bendix assembly located in front of the clutch under the RH cover, is all that in place?
After that heavy battery cables +12 and ground, a starter solenoid and a starter switch, which is most useful if located at the RH throttle control.

...and don't forget about the starter safety relay (SSR) which prevents engagement whenever the engine is running.

The SSR lives under the right hand sidecover and looks a lot like the voltage regulator with a small stamped goldie-silvery coloured anodized cover - but without the external windings. The photo below is the voltage reg - note the stamped metal cover. It is under the LEFT hand sidecover - you need to look under the RIGHT hand sidecover for the SSR.

upload_2020-7-2_18-54-21-jpeg.171056


From my experience, the SSR may need to be cleaned. To do this:
  1. remove the teeny little JIS screws that hold on the metal cover;
  2. spray some contact cleaner on the little contactor points inside, and;
  3. possibly pass a business card between the points, or maybe even a bit of fine grit emery cloth between them to remove any schmutz.
The SSR protects those expensive / irreplaceable gears if you happen to bump the button while running.

Cheers,

Pete
 
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XS974

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Hi everybody,
Does anyone knows if special washer #8 - ref 306-81893-10-00 - in following diagram is mandatory??
I've just cleaned my starter motor. It seems previous owners forgot this washer. As a result, the rotor move in and out for about 2,5mm.
Is it a problem? what can I use in placeas this washer is no longer available? What is so special with this washer?
Thank you
.
 

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onkelheri

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A undilieverable washer is just a piece of Metall wich is in a lathe ... then you cut away all the parts that not makes this metallpiece looking not that washer you need ... and n° 8 & n° 9 must not insulated, they just keep distance. The washers on the carbonside cud be " fiber" only if the od more then the Cupperradius !
The clearance of the rotor shut apprx 1mm so that the carbons not groove in the cupper it must be moveable ...

Greats from the Eifel GroundZero...
Heri

Btw: I take donation for thoose are wich lost everything after the flodding from 14.of July near the Northloop racetrack . This destroys the whole winearea along the river Ahr!
Paypal friends: onkelheri@yahoo.de
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XS974

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Gary : Ouch! 10+23 $ for washers... anyway thank you.
Heri : Not sure to understand "The washers on the carbonside cud be " fiber" only if the od more then the Cupperradius !". Could you be more spécific?
Thanks too!
 

XS974

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Hi!
I've tried with a standard washer and it seems to be ok. But I've found a piece of bakelite which is the material of the original washer, and made a washer. So I will use it!!
Thanks for your help, both of you.

Good ride!!
 
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