Playin' around with an old photo editor....
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Mailman’s XS2 a full on restoration
- Thread starter Mailman
- Start date
You need to give us a warning when you post those before and after shots of the cam covers. It was like looking at the sun, and I burned my eyes out.
Man I gotta get going on this again! I’ve lost my momentum , but I am determined to get it back. So in that spirit, here is a little update on my latest misadventures.
This whole cam seal conundrum really has me baffled. This seems like it should be so simple in concept. Why do some people have such problems with the seals leaking and others have no issue at all. I had heard of some guys leaving the gasket out from between the housing and the head, so I decided to study it.
When you try and use the gasket and the o ring together, the oring sits on top of the gasket.
This creates too much thickness and pushes the seal too far out on the cam shaft. So Then I left the gasket off and just used the o ring, and I put gasket sealer around the machined surface on the head and rocker cover and installed the housing. Surprisingly the housing wouldn’t tighten up flush. When I pulled it back off there wasn’t even any gasket sealer touching the housing.
It seemed to need the gasket to fill that space.
So, I trimmed an o ring size piece from the gasket. This allows the o ring to fit down flush to the housing instead of laying on top of the gasket.
Now when the housing is tightened, the gasket and oring are inplace and everything tightens up flush. The outer seal lip is still very close to the end of the cam shaft, one side being virtually flush with the end.
I really can’t see any way to get these any closer than they are right now.
One other observation, the new seals are a double lip affair, with the inner lip having the compression spring, the outer lip appears to be a dust seal. The OEM seal that came out was a single lip seal with no dust lip.
And lastly, the two sides got assembled a little differently, one side has Yamabond, just on one side, because I had intended to go gasketless.
The other side I decided to try something different, a thin coat of Hylomar on both sides of the gasket.
I kinda wish I hadn’t used any gasket cement at all.
Note: I wrote this up a couple days ago, since then I have decided I am going to pull these back off and remove the gaskets and replace them with new ones that I just ordered. This time I intend to just soak the gaskets in oil prior to installation , ala 5 Twins.
So that’s where I’m at, waiting for new gaskets, but I’ve got plenty of other stuff to do, and I’m gonna get after it!
See you soon,
Bob
This whole cam seal conundrum really has me baffled. This seems like it should be so simple in concept. Why do some people have such problems with the seals leaking and others have no issue at all. I had heard of some guys leaving the gasket out from between the housing and the head, so I decided to study it.
When you try and use the gasket and the o ring together, the oring sits on top of the gasket.
This creates too much thickness and pushes the seal too far out on the cam shaft. So Then I left the gasket off and just used the o ring, and I put gasket sealer around the machined surface on the head and rocker cover and installed the housing. Surprisingly the housing wouldn’t tighten up flush. When I pulled it back off there wasn’t even any gasket sealer touching the housing.
It seemed to need the gasket to fill that space.
So, I trimmed an o ring size piece from the gasket. This allows the o ring to fit down flush to the housing instead of laying on top of the gasket.
Now when the housing is tightened, the gasket and oring are inplace and everything tightens up flush. The outer seal lip is still very close to the end of the cam shaft, one side being virtually flush with the end.
I really can’t see any way to get these any closer than they are right now.
One other observation, the new seals are a double lip affair, with the inner lip having the compression spring, the outer lip appears to be a dust seal. The OEM seal that came out was a single lip seal with no dust lip.
And lastly, the two sides got assembled a little differently, one side has Yamabond, just on one side, because I had intended to go gasketless.
The other side I decided to try something different, a thin coat of Hylomar on both sides of the gasket.
I kinda wish I hadn’t used any gasket cement at all.
Note: I wrote this up a couple days ago, since then I have decided I am going to pull these back off and remove the gaskets and replace them with new ones that I just ordered. This time I intend to just soak the gaskets in oil prior to installation , ala 5 Twins.
So that’s where I’m at, waiting for new gaskets, but I’ve got plenty of other stuff to do, and I’m gonna get after it!
See you soon,
Bob
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Like James Taylor sang....
Like James Taylor sang.... View attachment 129294 ten miles behind me... and ten thousand more to go... View attachment 129294 You'll get your mojo back buddy... I got faith in ya.
“And as the moon rises he sits by his fire
Thinking about women and glasses of beer.”
That’s my problem right there!
Thanks buddy! Tell them Mailman is coming!
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Bob, yer pics aren't showing up.
I lost track. Are you using 5mm, 6mm, or 7mm wide seals?
There were numerous undocumented, subtle changes to camshafts. I wonder if there's any length differences in those. Some may be too short to use the wider seals. We have seen unusual length differences in advance rods, perhaps a clue...
I lost track. Are you using 5mm, 6mm, or 7mm wide seals?
There were numerous undocumented, subtle changes to camshafts. I wonder if there's any length differences in those. Some may be too short to use the wider seals. We have seen unusual length differences in advance rods, perhaps a clue...
Hmmm... that's the second time today I've read about pics not showing up when I can see 'em just fine... I suspect we gotta glitch goin' on here.
I did a copy paste with the photos in the article. I’ll try to re insert the photos. Please stand by.
I don't think I'd be too concerned with the outer dust lip as long as the inner oil lip has good purchase on the cam.
Ok photos should be back. Steve, I don’t recall off the top of my head the width of those seals. They are the factory size though.
Yeah Jim, I would agree, the inner lip should have a good purchase on the end of the cam.
Yeah Jim, I would agree, the inner lip should have a good purchase on the end of the cam.
Ok, pics are there.
Zooming in on your last pic, I see a 5mm seal.
The depth of the cam end chamfers looks deeper than what I recall.
More to worry about.
Edit: The o-ring has a circular cross section. The recess it fits into has a rectangular cross section. You want an o-ring with a diameter larger than the recess width/depth, but with a smaller cross section. A narrow range...
Zooming in on your last pic, I see a 5mm seal.
The depth of the cam end chamfers looks deeper than what I recall.
More to worry about.
Edit: The o-ring has a circular cross section. The recess it fits into has a rectangular cross section. You want an o-ring with a diameter larger than the recess width/depth, but with a smaller cross section. A narrow range...
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Looking at your 1st pic, it looks like you could seat the seal a little deeper in the housing. It doesn't look quite flush with the back yet. The deeper you can seat it, the more purchase you'll get on the cam.
I may have become that guy but from my short experimentation I would be applying Tungsten disulfide powder to those seals before they get oiled, lubed.
The only engine I have with a noticeable cam seal leak is Madness and that just isn't bad enough for me to wade in. Great idea with the gasket trim.
PS install o-rings with some silicone (sil glyde) smeared on them first. Was just putting gary's valve cover o-rings on Milwaukee iron the silicone really helps them squeeze into the slot.
The only engine I have with a noticeable cam seal leak is Madness and that just isn't bad enough for me to wade in. Great idea with the gasket trim.
PS install o-rings with some silicone (sil glyde) smeared on them first. Was just putting gary's valve cover o-rings on Milwaukee iron the silicone really helps them squeeze into the slot.
+ 1 on the sil glyde
You sir were quite correct! When I pulled the housings off, I checked them and they were not quite flush with the inside edge of the housing. I laid them flat on my work bench and put a socket that was the size of the seal on top and tap, tap, tap, I gained another 1/16” of purchase on the cam. Good eye!
Got my new filter sump installed and safety wired the bolts. I did the safety wire twists by hand following instructions that I found on YouTube by an aircraft mechanics instructor. Did I get it right Jim?
Don’t you wish it was this easy to access all the time? I think these gaskets that came with my Athena kit are a little sloppy fit.
Yes, most of the Athena gaskets seem to be a little large, but I think they work very well. You may get as many as half a dozen removal/installs out of that sump gasket before it starts weeping enough to need replacing. If you have the complete Athena gasket set then I also highly recommend the red fiber drain bolt sealing washers. They work great and last darn near forever.
Yup... you got it.by hand following instructions that I found on YouTube by an aircraft mechanics instructor. Did I get it right Jim?
Ha!! I forgot I had these! Sure better than the paper thin copper crush washers that were on here!
I think all you guys need to come to sunny Arizona for the winter and help me finish my bike! I’ll fire up the BBQ!
Bring your sunscreen!
Done and done! They’re already in place. Thanks again!
