Performance should improve, but you may not notice it. The 520 is likely a must if you were going racing. The lighter chain and sprockets isn’t as robust as the 530 bits, so I wouldn’t expect it to last as long.
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- Thread starter Peepz
- Start date
Ok guys. I'm tired of the brake dive on these front forks. My question is this: new emulators with stock springs? New progressive springs? OR both (new emulators and progressive springs)? Not looking for a race bike, just a tighter front end. I hate the bouncing back and forth at the stop lights
What have you done to the forks so far?
Not much, just a little cosmetic cleanup, an oil change and new dust seals.
How much oil did you put in what weight?
These forks will never be modern dampers. But with everything just right or cough Minton mods they're not BAD forks you got adjustable fork caps, what do you weigh?
Fork mods a slippery slope spend much and you might be better going with newer forks
These forks will never be modern dampers. But with everything just right or cough Minton mods they're not BAD forks you got adjustable fork caps, what do you weigh?
Fork mods a slippery slope spend much and you might be better going with newer forks
It was awhile ago, but I seem to remember 7ounces-ish... With some 15wt motor oil I had on the self at the time. Rider weight of 195lbs. I do have everything on the self for a full tear down and rebuild now though, including progressives and emulator valves. Just curious which route you guys would go for stiffer front end with less brake dive? I will use whatever I don't use here on my other 80' build.
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I'm no suspension expert but the Grizzled one would always say don't mix progressive springs with emulators.
I had one bike with (just mikesXS) emulators and IIRC stock springs, and the one I ride has the minton mods. By modern standards a bit harsh but don't notice excessive fork dive. I've used big twin 35mm Sportster springs to help keep the front end up.
I had one bike with (just mikesXS) emulators and IIRC stock springs, and the one I ride has the minton mods. By modern standards a bit harsh but don't notice excessive fork dive. I've used big twin 35mm Sportster springs to help keep the front end up.
That’s right! No emulators with progressive springs. The combination is not tunable.
Regarding brake dive, higher viscosity oil is no use. It only slows the speed that the forks move. To reduce brake dive, you should reduce the air space in the forks. I use the settings provided by Race Tech. @5twins has his setting he claims works as well. We’re probably in the same range.
Collapse the fork and remove the spring. Set the oil level from the top of the tube. I set mine 100 to 130 mm from the top. I don’t have exact info with me. It’s a tuning range you set to your own liking. Too much oil and you will force the seal out and the oil with it. Too little and you’re riding a pogo stick. Getting it right affects the bottom of travel and reduces your brake dive.
Emulators work great. I have a bike with them. However, it’s still an old bike with skinny fork tubes, so you don’t get transformation into a modern sport bike. Getting it right means spending around $500 and lots of fiddling. Optionally, send your forks to Traxxion Dynamics and they’ll get them as good as can be. Then, you’re going to need a fork brace and a lighter weight brake rotor. These improvements are fun to make, but can get spendy.
Regarding brake dive, higher viscosity oil is no use. It only slows the speed that the forks move. To reduce brake dive, you should reduce the air space in the forks. I use the settings provided by Race Tech. @5twins has his setting he claims works as well. We’re probably in the same range.
Collapse the fork and remove the spring. Set the oil level from the top of the tube. I set mine 100 to 130 mm from the top. I don’t have exact info with me. It’s a tuning range you set to your own liking. Too much oil and you will force the seal out and the oil with it. Too little and you’re riding a pogo stick. Getting it right affects the bottom of travel and reduces your brake dive.
Emulators work great. I have a bike with them. However, it’s still an old bike with skinny fork tubes, so you don’t get transformation into a modern sport bike. Getting it right means spending around $500 and lots of fiddling. Optionally, send your forks to Traxxion Dynamics and they’ll get them as good as can be. Then, you’re going to need a fork brace and a lighter weight brake rotor. These improvements are fun to make, but can get spendy.
I've never tried those emulators and probably never will because I'm pretty happy with just the Minton Mods and a little extra oil. On my '83, I saved the cost of new springs by simply adding some preload spacers to the stock springs. The adjustable top caps add 10mm per step so with two steps available, you can add a total of 20mm of preload .....
I've found this isn't quite enough and the forks were still a little too soft. So, my "target" spacer range was one that would add about another half step to that, or about 25mm. I started with 1" spacers (about 25mm) but they proved to be too stiff. This is because I failed to take into account the thickness of the washer you must add between the spacer and top of the spring. This put the total spacing up near 30mm and that was too much. So, I shortened the spacers to 13/16" and they're good now. This puts the total spacing just under 25mm.
For oil, I use the recommended 10wt. I start out with about 7 ounces in a cleaned and totally dry fork, about 6.5 ounces on a re-fill (because you never get all the old oil out). And I found the old standard of setting the level 6" from the tops of the tubes works well. The extra oil is what really helps with the brake dive.
I've found this isn't quite enough and the forks were still a little too soft. So, my "target" spacer range was one that would add about another half step to that, or about 25mm. I started with 1" spacers (about 25mm) but they proved to be too stiff. This is because I failed to take into account the thickness of the washer you must add between the spacer and top of the spring. This put the total spacing up near 30mm and that was too much. So, I shortened the spacers to 13/16" and they're good now. This puts the total spacing just under 25mm.
For oil, I use the recommended 10wt. I start out with about 7 ounces in a cleaned and totally dry fork, about 6.5 ounces on a re-fill (because you never get all the old oil out). And I found the old standard of setting the level 6" from the tops of the tubes works well. The extra oil is what really helps with the brake dive.
So, I didn't have a whole lot of time today. So I decided to throw the progressive springs in, and with the preload adjusters maxed out (3rd setting down), and 6.5ounces of new 15wt fork oil, I'm a lot happier now. They still have a long ways to go but much better than before. Im going to try the emulators with another set I have eventually, but for the everyday-ride to work, this'll do for now. Side note, I really buggered one of the for caps/fork trying to re-assemble, it'll probably need new tubes and caps next time
. Whats the trick to getting those fine thread fork caps started when reassembling?
. Whats the trick to getting those fine thread fork caps started when reassembling?
Let someone else do it?
Sorry, couldn't help myself... there is no easy way with those caps. The easiest way I've found is a socket on about a 6 to 8" extension. Sight down the extension for alignment while you're sweating your ass off pushing down and turning. Yeah.... pretty crude. Maybe someone else will chime in?
Oh... and make sure the cap preloads are set to minimum.
LTGTR
XS650 Addict
Test fit the cap without the spring and find the point that the cap starts to thread into the fork tube - mark that point with a texta - now you know where the best place to start from is - then like jim says get something substantial on the top of the socket to push down on and is comfotable in the palm of your hand so you have some leeverage and control.
Ray.
Ray.
Great idea! Thanks
Use a 3/8" drive T-handle. This allows you to push down and turn at the same time. It will also turn your entire socket set into T-handles, lol. Anybody who owns a bike should own one of these as well .....
https://www.xs650.com/threads/its-t...roject-the-red-bike.62447/page-17#post-781718
I did this back in February. Worked well for me. I used a plumbing union as a 1 inch spacer for preload on the fork springs among the Minton mods and I really like my forks now.
I did this back in February. Worked well for me. I used a plumbing union as a 1 inch spacer for preload on the fork springs among the Minton mods and I really like my forks now.
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Oh wow! That's a slick trick! Thanks man!
Use the other tricks too. Index the cap.
