Welded Frame, Bike wont start.

[Jan_P]

That is a NoNo

You have the connectors metal laying onto the frame . I dont know what wires those are but it does not look as ground
And then it can be grounding those wires there Unknown to me what signal or Voltage that goes into the frame instead in the wire
But it is wrong ---put some insulating tape and move it off the frame

 

[gggGary]

Let me review?
With a jumper wire direct from battery to Gonzo you have 9ish volts at the gonzo?
That's just wrong.
If the Gonzo was drawing enough amperage to suck a good battery connection down to 9 volts all the smoke would get out of the Gonzo.
It would literally be smoking glowing red/melting in short order, the jumper wire too hot to touch, it's insulation melting. Connectioning a jumper with that kind of load would make a BIG spark.
What's really going on here? Where are you placing your ground lead? Is the jumper lead of decent size, say 16 gauge or larger?
So #1 is finding out where a bad connection is. Jumper a ground lead to the battery from the black Gonzo connector wire?
Since we are chasing loose ends; the possibility exists of frayed near broken pick up lead wires. Problems with broken damaged wires down by the sprocket are rather popular.

 

[nikiforova]

That is a NoNo

You have the connectors metal laying onto the frame . I dont know what wires those are but it does not look as ground
And then it can be grounding those wires there Unknown to me what signal or Voltage that goes into the frame instead in the wire
But it is wrong ---put some insulating tape and move it off the frame


View attachment 221300

Those wires are resting on the rubber from the ground battery terminal in this picture, however, since that wire is not needed in the gonzo swap it has since been disconnected and taped until I put it back into the 6 pin connector from the harness.

Let me review?
With a jumper wire direct from battery to Gonzo you have 9ish volts at the gonzo?
That's just wrong.
If the Gonzo was drawing enough amperage to suck a good battery connection down to 9 volts all the smoke would get out of the Gonzo.
It would literally be smoking glowing red/melting in short order, the jumper wire too hot to touch, it's insulation melting. Connectioning a jumper with that kind of load would make a BIG spark.
What's really going on here? Where are you placing your ground lead? Is the jumper lead of decent size, say 16 gauge or larger?
So #1 is finding out where a bad connection is. Jumper a ground lead to the battery from the black Gonzo connector wire?
Since we are chasing loose ends; the possibility exists of frayed near broken pick up lead wires. Problems with broken damaged wires down by the sprocket are rather popular.

No, with the jumper the gonzo is getting the full extent of the battery. It is the R/W wire that powers the gonzo thats experiencing some issues. When the connector to the gonzo is unplugged, the R/W wire is seeing ~.5v drop, but once plugged into the connector it sees ~2v drop.

 

[jpdevol]

Since we are chasing loose ends; the possibility exists of frayed near broken pick up lead wires. Problems with broken damaged wires down by the sprocket are rather popular.

Wild case no? The pick-up Ohm'd good since the hot jumper and previously checked good in diagnosing bad TCI. Don't think we've Ohm'd charging system as we've been tracking no-spark.

As Gary indicated - the wires leading from stator/rotor are subject to damage. While we're waiting on igniter, might as well apply your new-found prowess to the big connector coming from left side case harness. I'll post some specs whenever you're ready (although one test to be done later - needs to be running).

 

[jpdevol]

Ok, all that we're checking ATM is the integrity of stator windings and rotor/brushes. You can also reverify pickup wire colors here (bk/w,Wh/r). Only need to do highlighted portion of attached, connector unplugged from main harness, meter on lowest Ohm setting:

 

[Jim]

No, with the jumper the gonzo is getting the full extent of the battery. It is the R/W wire that powers the gonzo thats experiencing some issues. When the connector to the gonzo is unplugged, the R/W wire is seeing ~.5v drop, but once plugged into the connector it sees ~2v drop.

That kinda reinforces the thought that you have high resistance somewhere... iggy or kill switch.... or the fuse block.
There's a how to here (in Tech?) on disassembling the iggy switch and cleaning it. I'd suggest doing that while you're waiting. Do the same for the kill switch... which is sorta self explanatory.

There's tons of choices out there for fuse blocks. I'm using one similar to this one. If you're looking for a dependable ride (who isn't), might as well get these items out of the way.

 

[jpdevol]

That box would be great update. You'd maybe want to add an inline 20-30A inline blade fuse-holder next to it to replace the existing 20A main fuse. Red wire from existing battery lead (12ga @ solenoid) to inline, to red wire going to ign. switch. Then brown wire from ign. switch gets a ring terminal to fuse box Jim showed. The three outgoing circuits get female spade connectors soldered & shrink tubed.
https://www.amazon.com/MCIGICM-Inline-Fuse-Holder-Blade/dp/B081DHT8Y7

We love spending your money. lol

 

[Jim]

That box would be great update. You'd maybe want to add an inline 20-30A inline blade fuse-holder next to it to replace the existing 20A main fuse. Red wire from existing battery lead (12ga @ solenoid) to inline, to red wire going to ign. switch. Then brown wire from ign. switch gets a ring terminal to fuse box Jim showed. The three outgoing circuits get female spade connectors soldered & shrink tubed.
https://www.amazon.com/MCIGICM-Inline-Fuse-Holder-Blade/dp/B081DHT8Y7

We love spending your money. lol

Maybe a bit much for a newly minted sparky, but I modded mine so the 20a main feed is built into the block instead of external...
Here.

 

[Team Junk]

I like this box because it mimics the stock fuses on top of the battery.

 

[nikiforova]

That kinda reinforces the thought that you have high resistance somewhere... iggy or kill switch.... or the fuse block.
There's a how to here (in Tech?) on disassembling the iggy switch and cleaning it. I'd suggest doing that while you're waiting. Do the same for the kill switch... which is sorta self explanatory.

There's tons of choices out there for fuse blocks. I'm using one similar to this one. If you're looking for a dependable ride (who isn't), might as well get these items out of the way.



View attachment 221339

This looks really good! I actually spend all of today tracking down wires and cleaning up the harness. Headlight hasnt been working for a while so I went ahead and removed the reserve lighting switch and wired together the L/b and L/y for funsies.... no change. Gonna check the voltage on it tomorrow. Also wired up a new fuse box funnily enough. A replica of the stock one, but the one you linked was cheaper so now i feel silly. Im off again tomorrow so ill clean up the ignition and kill switch as well as get my headlight working again while I wait for that gonzo.

 

[jpdevol]

Wow - awesome!

 

[Team Junk]

I agree it appears that there is a resistance in the r/w ignition circuit.

Gonzo needs at least 10 volts to fire.

To test the high voltage system

1 Jumper 12v to r/w at Gonzo
1 turn key on
2 monterarly ground the orange wire at Gonzo connector.

You should get a spark.

Keep in mind both plugs must be grounded on a two tower coil for a spark to occur.



From your resistance readings of the pickup coils they appear to be ok.

Best test of the pickups is disconnect the pig tail at the Gonzo and connect a analog meter to the pickups on the pig tail and crank the engine.

The voltage output open circuit at cranking is about 2v RMS and the meter needle will bounce. a little as the magnet passes the pickup. Haven't tried with a digital meter so don't know if the pulses will show up .

 

[Jan_P]

Well pretty much everything has been said.
But I put it here anyways
I go for straight lines to Ignition and coil and ground to Battery
If that means Voltage below 11. 5 with a good battery there is not much than can be defect .. and the fault finding is on those with physics ascertained

If by unknown reasons other wiring loops are connected take them out one by one until the Voltage drop disappears
Checking the rotor is a good thing to do since that happens . It shorts

Triple gG Mentioned something that should go into the tech Section

"You cant buy yourself to a good working XS650 you'll go broke first "

But that is a part of the hobby ..do the read up ,, and wrenching your self. If you don't ..it has happened many times before
The motorcycling adventure can be short and costly. We are talking 40 -50 year old Motorcycles.
It can be a black hole where the saving goes .Admittedly better than other vehicles But still at the end to high.

edit
Personally I seldom measure resistance since it can change ..with temperature and if the bike gets moved.
The meters I have which is of middle quality does flicker a lot especially at low resistances
Voltage and watching spark

 

[grizld1]

Here's a starting place. Step 1: With key switch on, compare voltage at battery to voltage on brown switched power wire out of key switch. If drop is greater than ~0.2V, service or replace key switch. When key switch voltage is within range, proceed to kill switch. With kill switch and key switches on, compare voltage on BR switched power from key switch to voltage on R/W wire out of kill switch. Drop should not be more than 0.1 V difference from voltage on BR wire. If greater, service or replace kill switch. Note: those numbers reflect a personal standard; on my bike I don't tolerate more. Slightly greater drops may work, but a large drop from the key switch can mislead your regulator into overworking the alternator rotor.

 

[jpdevol]

See post 203 and numerous previous mentions regarding voltage drop. Total voltage drop to igniter now is .5-.8V. OP is currently cleaning switches mentioned

 

[nikiforova]

Okay yall, reporting back from the trenches of my office. I tested my ignition switch and had no notable voltage drop. It looked really clean as well. My kill switch however, was looking pretty corroded and grimy so I gave that a quick clean. So in total now we have, new fuse box, clean ignition and kill switches, new coil, and gonzo unit. I am still noticing the drop from full voltage down to a 2 volt drop when plugged into the gonzo. I think I was able to track down the source, when my coil is unplugged and my gonzo is plugged in, I get full power to the gonzo; however, once I plug both the coil and gonzo in I drop 2 volts almost to the T. Also, couldnt figure out my headlight situation lol. Just not getting any power, maybe run a jumper through a fuse to the light?

 

[Jim]

Just to clarify on your V drop.... is that just measured at the box, or is the battery itself also dropping the 2v?

Headlight circuit has a relay that supplies power after the engine is running. Is that still installed?

 

[nikiforova]

Just to clarify on your V drop.... is that just measured at the box, or is the battery itself also dropping the 2v?

Headlight circuit has a relay that supplies power after the engine is running. Is that still installed?


View attachment 221410

Yeah my headlight circuit is still installed. I guess just cause it’s not running it’s not coming on. Let me check on that voltage for ya
Yeah its only dropping at the box. Drop at the battery is less than half a volt (tested with an older battery that was working)

 

[nikiforova]

Well pretty much everything has been said.
But I put it here anyways
I go for straight lines to Ignition and coil and ground to Battery
If that means Voltage below 11. 5 with a good battery there is not much than can be defect .. and the fault finding is on those with physics ascertained

If by unknown reasons other wiring loops are connected take them out one by one until the Voltage drop disappears
Checking the rotor is a good thing to do since that happens . It shorts

Triple gG Mentioned something that should go into the tech Section

"You cant buy yourself to a good working XS650 you'll go broke first "

But that is a part of the hobby ..do the read up ,, and wrenching your self. If you don't ..it has happened many times before
The motorcycling adventure can be short and costly. We are talking 40 -50 year old Motorcycles.
It can be a black hole where the saving goes .Admittedly better than other vehicles But still at the end to high.

edit
Personally I seldom measure resistance since it can change ..with temperature and if the bike gets moved.
The meters I have which is of middle quality does flicker a lot especially at low resistances
Voltage and watching spark

Does running straight lines from the battery to the ignition and coil increase the likely hood that the coil and ignition get damaged?

 

[Jim]

Does running straight lines from the battery to the ignition and coil increase the likely hood that the coil and ignition get damaged?

Nope. Just means they have a "clean" power source.