Brake Master Cylinder Issues and Suggestions

[JaxShane650]

Okay so I have a 1980 xs650 with a pretty much stock break setup with a single caliper/disc setup and a cheap $25 eBay 14mm master cylinder. I got the aftermarket m/c because the original 14mm Master cylinder was pretty much shot and beyond repair. Here's a picture of most of the current setup.

Now a month later and I'm not too happy with this cheap ebay m/c. I've bled the brakes 3 or 4 times and the brake lever feels the same every time. It doesn't firm up till about the last inch of movement and then goes all the way to the handlebar and provides alright breaking. Now I'm going to be replacing the stock break lines with stainless steel braded brake lines to see if that helps, which most likely it won't because the stock ones are in good condition. So what I'm asking is if someone has a better suggestion for a new, higher quality m/c in the 11mm range because after some reading on this form I have heard good things about 11mm m/c with the stock setup. I'm just having trouble finding an 11mm m/c that's in a good price range. I would be willing to spend $50 or more for a good one, it's just the ones I'm finding that would fit my xs650 are in the $100 range witch is out of my budget. So if anyone had any suggestions on any good m/c (links to where I could buy them are even better) I would really appreciate it

 

[DanielBlack]

Upgrading the front brake on my 77 was one of the first things I did to it.

Michael Morse at 650Central set me up with a 12.7mm m/c, a SS line, and Vesrah pads. I'm very happy with it. Two-finger stops, and the stock lever was an easy swap.

 

[weekendrider]

JaxShane did you try the reverse bleeding with a syringe?

 

[Michaelo]

Sounds like what WER said, try reverse bleeding, if that's no good, seal kit for the master cylinder, inspect, hone, clean, replace seals etc...

 

[ThatXS650Guy]

I have Hugh's and am happy with it.
He has a few blems for sale that would meet your needs.
http://www.hughshandbuilt.com/product/hhb-slimline-master-cylinder-blemished/

 

[gggGary]

Have you overhauled the caliper? Pay special attention to the slider.

http://www.xs650.com/threads/help-with-caliper-rebuild.41676

 

[5twins]

I think what many have used with great success is the 12.7mm unit from a Yamaha Banshee quad. Aftermarket ones are quite reasonable but I would be more inclined to get a nice used original .....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-FRONT-B...ash=item4894621acf:g:lW4AAOSwBahVdjPo&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-Yamaha...ash=item2cb3acadac:g:6z8AAOSwmLlX~Rlg&vxp=mtr

The spongy feel on your lever is most likely due to the line. It may look OK but if it's original, it's gone soft. It's swelling when you put pressure into it. The way your lever slowly pulls all the way in to the grip indicates the MC isn't holding pressure. I think it's junk, honestly.

 

[5twins]

I think I got it wrong, the MC comes from a Raptor, not a Banshee. The stock Banshee ones I'm seeing on eBay are all marked "14". I would assume that means they're a 14mm bore just like your stock one. The Raptor ones are 1/2" (12.7mm).

 

[fredintoon]

Hi Jax,
your fabric brake line died of old age years ago. Stainless replacement is the best way to go.
And a smaller master cylinder, 11mm or 12mm is the size to look at.
But those two items are beyond your budget, you whine.
Consider the cost of hospitalization if your brake don't work good, eh?

 

[JaxShane650]

JaxShane did you try the reverse bleeding with a syringe?

Yeah I did, gonna try it agian when I get the new line and see if that helps. If not I'm just gonna go with a new m/c.

 

[gggGary]

Have you overhauled the caliper? Pay special attention to the slider.

http://www.xs650.com/threads/help-with-caliper-rebuild.41676

 

[weekendrider]

gggGary I believe he has. He was able to dis-assemble that, but the m/c snap ring is gunk glued in the groove.

 

[gggGary]

I will make an "educated" guess that he has not got all the air out of the system yet or the slider is not moving freely. Always worth checking that the relief port
(the tiny second hole visible in the bottom of the reservoir, sometimes under a guard) in the MC is open, we have found more than a few "far eastern" MC's with the port not properly open

 

[JaxShane650]

So I replaced both old break lines with a single new stainless steel break line and boy has it made a difference for this m/c I got off ebay. After installing the new lines and bleeding the brakes the brake lever firmed up real nice. I can't get the brake lever to the handle anymore even with full strength. This new brake line has seemed to of solved my problem.
Picture of new brake line installed.

In my search for a new affordable m/c for my bike I found this 12.7mm m/c that doesn't look too bad, what do you all think?
Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/271935737251

 

[aldo5468]

So I replaced both old break lines with a single new stainless steel break line and boy has it made a difference for this m/c I got off ebay. After installing the new lines and bleeding the brakes the brake lever firmed up real nice. I can't get the brake lever to the handle anymore even with full strength. This new brake line has seemed to of solved my problem.
Picture of new brake line installed.
View attachment 90438
In my search for a new affordable m/c for my bike I found this 12.7mm m/c that doesn't look too bad, what do you all think?
Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/271935737251

The 11mm m/c off a TW200 is a straight plug-and-play swap and just the right size for the single caliper 650's.

 

[5twins]

Yes, in my recent research, I stumbled across that one as well. It was also used on the XT225 and TTR225/250. Besides the sought after 11mm size, it also has a mirror and brake light switch mount. I'm thinking it's one of the best alternatives out there.

 

[Signal]

My only thought is that the reservoir is angled to suit a handle bar that slopes down. Like a clip on would. This may suit your bars or not. A reservoir cap that sits parallel with the bar clamp or a remote reservoir (that can be tilted to suit) would be better for flat bars. I have no experience with the master cylinder you linked to so can’t comment on it further.

One further thing to consider is the mirror mount thread. Our bikes have a left hand thread some other master cylinders have a right hand thread Brembo for example. There are ways around this, just be aware.
Edit: By the time I wrote this 5Twins and Aldo made my post redundant.

 

[aldo5468]

Yes, in my recent research, I stumbled across that one as well. It was also used on the XT225 and TTR225/250. Besides the sought after 11mm size, it also has a mirror and brake light switch mount. I'm thinking it's one of the best alternatives out there.

I have to give credit to ggGary for alerting me to this one - I used it and liked the feel until I put a 4-pot Brembo caliper on my bike. The stock 14mm m/c seems to work well with the Brembo.

 

[Paul Sutton]

To pickup on freedintoon's comment above - I had issues with my SH front brake. I wanted to keep the original brake lines even though the whole world says they will be shot after 10 - 36 years. I replaced them this week and what a change this made. I can now bring the bike to a stop without having to use excessive force on the brake lever. I must learn to listen more to this forum than my wallet!

 

[angus67]

the link jax posted to says the outlet is towards the bar. how can that be?